Guardians & Cubs & Phillies
Submitted by: DrJosh
Guardians
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Willson Contreras | 30 | Majors | C | High | 0.4 | 13.5 | 4 | 9.5 | 7.6 | 9.5 | 11.4 | |
| Ian Happ | 27 | Majors | OF | Medium | 1.4 | 37.5 | 13.1 | 24.4 | 19.5 | 24.4 | 29.2 |
Total Value:
33.9
Cubs
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Nolan Jones | Minors | 3B | 13.4 | 10.7 | 13.4 | 16.1 | ||||||
| Bryan Lavastida | 23 | Majors | C | Low | 5.4 | 8.1 | 2.6 | 5.5 | 4.4 | 5.5 | 6.6 | |
| Griff McGarry | Minors | RHP | 10.1 | 8.1 | 10.1 | 12.1 | ||||||
| Doug Nikhazy | Minors | LHP | 2.4 | 1.9 | 2.4 | 2.9 | ||||||
| Johan Rojas | Minors | OF | 7.1 | 5.7 | 7.1 | 8.5 |
Total Value:
38.5
Phillies
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Tyler Freeman | Minors | 2B | 15.6 | 12.5 | 15.6 | 18.7 | ||||||
| David Robertson | 37 | Majors | RHRP | High | 0.4 | 3.2 | 1.5 | 1.7 | 1.7 | 2.1 | 2.5 |
Total Value:
17.7
Comments
20
Cubs 3 top trade chips. They only get one prospect (McGarry) who looks interesting in return. No thanks.
That's way more than they can hope to get for those 3 and you're severely undervaluing the return for 3 players with little to no control pass this season. Cleveland sure as hell isn't giving up Jones, Freeman, Lavastida and Nikhazy for Happ and Contreras. That's ridiculous to even propose.
You are absolutely correct on this detailed view of Big Bat & SportsCoach, Word Press, JMF plus others who are mentally unstable about their prospects
Which ones are we "mentally unstable" about genius? List them please. You and Benjo are 2 of the most ignorant crybabies on this site. You know nothing of the prospects put in deals so all you go by is the assigned values here. You don't know enough to look outside of that bubble. You sure as hell know very little about Cleveland's prospects(#1 farm system now by the way) or how they value them. When the dust settles, Cleveland will likely have made some trades. What you fail to realize is that it will not be for short term, expensive gratification. There will probably be deals that involve some prospects outside of their top 5 or 10 and a couple of ML players as well. When the deadline has passed you can throw it back in my face if I'm wrong. I'll gladly eat that crow.
DrJosh, “Ridiculous” is more than a little strong, but this is BigBat’s m.o. I have dealt with him in the past. He likes to mock and ridicule others. Maybe it makes him feel big and important, like his nickname suggests. Who knows? He also overrates Cleveland’s prospects and devalues the competition, in my opinion, which is his prerogative, but don’t expect civility from him. I too reject the trade from Chicago’s standpoint. In makes more sense for the Cubs to trade each of their players in separate deals, rather than package them to together. With that said, I think Happ and Contreras would be ideal fits for Cleveland. However, one thing else you may want to know about BigBat and a couple other Cleveland fans on this site, their “plan” is not to win this year but next year. Evidently, this was communicated to them directly from the Guardians front office in secret. I am not making any of this up. You can read it in their words. I will gladly forward the post to you, if you’re interested.
Read what Antonetti said in the preseason. You will know they were in on Olson and Winker and that Antonetti said, All-stars with control or play the young guys. Contreras and Happ aren't all-stars with control... Trust me, I have wanted to make some moves by now, but I have to go with knowing how the FO of Cleveland says and does thing. We wanted to move for Happ and Contreras before the season started and they didn't make the move which tells me they never looked to get either guy to begin with.
You're saying, in one breath, that Antonetti was in on Winker, who is having an off year and becomes a free agent in 2024, but in another that it makes no sense to be in on Happ, who made the All-Star team and may win a Gold Glove in LF, who also becomes a free agent in 2024, because you have to think like Antonetti?????
Kwan is a better defensive LF than Happ... Every single stat you can find says so... Just look it up... Now onto your point. Cleveland wanted to make deals for Olson and Winker in the offseason and they fell through. That went public, which is rare for the Guardians FO to state. Then they didn't go and acquire Happ. That logically says, they had packages ready for those two, but weren't willing to put a package together for Happ. That says that didn't want Happ. They didn't either put in an offer for Happ or the cost of Happ was way to high for them to even think about.
Happ is no longer a target by the Guardians because of Kwan and the production of the OF in general. Cleveland is top 10 in OF WAR, so Happ would just be blocking guys they want to get ABs for like Jones, OGonz, Brennan, Benson etc... Who are/were destroying minor league pitcher. I mean even Call had an OPS over .800 at AAA. They need to see what these guys can do... Straw has been cemented in CF for the rest of this season. Cleveland fans aren't 100% happy with that fact since he isnt hitting well, but it's a fact and with Kwan as a ROY and Gold Glove in LF. This forces Happ to play in RF where they want the rest of the rookies play. Jones and OGonz (before he got hurt) have been playing fairly well. Call got the call-up to replace Mercado since Call has options while Mercado didn't. This season was about competing while getting these guys at bats, they weren't actually expecting Kwan to literally take off like he has. They have even started incorporating some of Kwan's bat technique/workout into other players routines, which includes Jones. Getting Happ, and making him a RF, will block the guys they want to get ABs while only increasing their wins by a few games at most. So it's either get these guys ABs and see what we have long term or acquire a guy like Happ and not get ABs. Cleveland wanted to compete, but not block guys and now acquiring an OF like Happ will block guys they want to get ABs and that are producing as well. It would be way different if they weren't getting OF production, but they are... They have to figure out do they want to win a couple more games with Happ or get the guys ABs... The FO has decided to go with the young guys in the OF. Now they could go with Haniger plus a prospect for a prospect, since it would help with the project logjam, but they aren't spending the prospects to get Happ...
So what does that have to do with anything? I didn't say Happ was better than Kwan. You're the one making the comparative analysis. I said Happ may win a Gold Glove and he might. He's been the proverbial Human Highlight Reel all season long. If Kwan is fractionally better on defense who cares. The point is that Happ is controllable for one more season after this and a baseball season is a valuable thing. He would bring some power to the anemic Cleveland outfield. Insofar, as your convoluted point about Winker and Olson, the offseason is ancient history. Your team is TWO GAMES OUT OF FIRST PLACE, for chrissakes. Same as when you started this diatribe a month ago, following my post suggesting a Happ-Kwan deal. I don't understand your not trying to win now, but that's your business. Moreover to the point, the whole premise of this website is "Imagine you're the general manager of your favorite baseball team," not literally you pretending to be Mark Antonetti, or me pretending to be Jed Hoyer. No two people in a front office agree 100% of the time. So I don't get why it's so important to you to try to play Mini Me to Mark Antonetti. But again, if that's your thing, so be it. If I'm GM of the Guardians, I'm making a play for Happ, and to a lesser degree Contreras.
And your m.o. is to whine like a little child and spout untruths. I'm not mocking or ridiculing anyone and folks have been told time and again that Cleveland isn't doing expensive rentals this year. It was stated publicly for everyone to hear by Chris Antonetti so you can take your smartass comment down the road. Some of us Cleveland fans around here are privy to a bit more information. I will not share how or from where so don't bother asking and I don't care if you believe me or not. I don't devalue the competition. If you would pay attention instead of looking to get offended you'd know that I have posted several proposals and made numerous posts that indicate that I value other organization's prospects/players more than this site has listed as well. I don't just disagree with the valuations on Cleveland players/prospects. As far as Cleveland's prospects. I encourage you to look back and repost where I've been wrong. Was it Espino? Rocchio? Williams? Valera? I mean how many top 100 prospects do you want me to list? To help you out I'll give you another name that you can count on seeing a rapid rise in the prospect rankings. That name is Tanner Bibee. Drafted throwing 92-94. Enters Cleveland's pitching factory and now sitting 95-97 and touching 99 with filthy stuff. Just because you're such a great guy and wonderful poster here at BTV, I'll give you another name. Look up Will Brennan. He'll be making a nice ascent as well. Then again he may get called up before too long and lose his prospect status. So when the dust settles within the next 2 weeks, we'll see how your Contreras and Happ trades unfold. Just about anything can happen, but what won't happen is Cleveland giving valuable prospects for them. Contreras doesn't have enough control and Happ isn't really a need right now. He'd only be in the way of Jones, Gonzalez, Brennan or Valera. So in conclusion, expecting Cleveland to give up Jones, Lavastida, Freeman and Nikhazy for Happ and Contreras is ridiculous. It's not going to happen even though both are very nice players. It's just not a fit for that cost.
Hey BigBat, nice to hear from you. Calling you out on your ill manners is hardly the same thing as whining. Actually, I look forward to your posts, because you keep making a bigger idiot out of yourself with each comment. Only in Cleveland (apparently) would these two statements make sense. "I’m not mocking or ridiculing anyone . . . So in conclusion, expecting Cleveland to give up Jones, Lavastida, Freeman and Nikhazy for Happ and Contreras is ridiculous." I'm also calling you out on this statement: "Some of us Cleveland fans around here are privy to a bit more information." Like what information? I think you're full of it. Either that or borderline delusional. You make big claims but offer no proof. The only thing I agree with you with is this, "So when the dust settles within the next 2 weeks, we’ll see how your Contreras and Happ trades unfold. Just about anything can happen . . ." You're no more of an insider than anybody else on this website. The idea that a FO would waste time on a fantasy website when they have a real team to manage is ludicrous.
SportCoach and BigBat are kinda big deals with Cleveland Guardians management. They golf with Antonetti most mornings during which they discuss mock trade offers posted on BBTV. I’m thankful that the Guardians share all of their player acquisition strategy and their feedback on trade offers with the general public through SC and BB. I guess Antonetti goes back a long ways with SportsCoach, who was his coed tee ball manager for the 1981-1983 seasons. The only thing SportsCoach, BigBat, and Antonetti like more than overvaluing and hoarding their prospects is losing. They hope to continue the Cleveland tradition of losing for another hundred years and right now, it looks like they’re on the right track.
"Straw has been cemented in CF . . ." I think the operable word in your last post is "cemented," as in your thinking. What, you take the family to the beach, it's raining, and you say, "Dammit, the plan was to go to the beach and we're gonna stay put." Just joking a little, Sports Coach, but, come on, really. You're two games out and your goal is to get bats for the prospects? Putting player development over winning a possible pennant? You don't want Happ, fine. Grab Reynolds. It's gonna cost you Espino, Valera, Freeman, etc. How many times, do we have to cover the same ground? Put Kwan in CF, bench Straw, maybe the next Aaron Hicks. Personally, I don't think I'd trade Happ, if I were Jed. I'm not sure how you lure a big name SS into to committing to the Cubs during the offseason, unless you have enough manpower to compete. So Happ for Kwan and Morgan is officially off the table. You had your chance SC and blew it. Ha!
The FO and Manager have cemented Straw in CF, not me. Don't get after me for going with what they decided. I like Straw as the 4th OF to be honest especially since he is a defensive first guy. The FO wants to get the players ABs, not me. Since they didn't make an offer for Happ they aren't going to want him now. They have to figure out what they have long term and actually not getting these guys ABs actually hurts getting to see these guys in meaningful games. It's frustrating but I get it to. I have to give them the benefit of the doubt since Cleveland is number two in wins overall since Francona has taken over as the manager. The only team with more wins in that time frame is the Dodgers. Look it up and do the math yourself and you will see they have earned the benefit of the doubt, whether I agree with their decision or not. Cleveland isn't trading Valera, Espino and Williams to anyone for anything, which means they aren't getting Reynolds because I know they want all three plus some. Cleveland going up to 15 said Lindor is untouchable and they have all three of those guys in the same book, which tells me the FO believes all three will be All-Stars/Franchise players. Also Cleveland has a top 5 farm system in all of baseball and some rate them the 1st. The values on here are way off on them. Cleveland hides their prospects as much as possible from the national media. I am not even from Cleveland originally, so I am a baseball fan first before a Cleveland fan, but a good 80%+ of their top 30 prospects will make it to the bigs. They have been drafting, trading for and developing specific types of players and its working. Cleveland's biggest needs aren't OF, nor INF, it's actually C with control and bullpen arms especially from the left side. Jansen or a prospect near ready will be their target for Cs and guys like Burke from Texas or Puk from A's could be their targets for bullpen arms. They are going to make an unexpected move since no one even knew they were trading for Straw until they did it...
Sportscoach, don't bother engaging with these clowns. They don't care what the Cubs do. They just want to pick a fight with Cleveland posters. The last 19 posts involving the Cubs have no comments. They don't care about anything except provoking a fight. They are not worth engaging with.
Sorry, never been good at backing down, especially if I see ignorance...
JMF, actually I do care what the Cubs do. So, you're wrong about that. Sports Coach, sounds like you're working on the epitaph for your tombstone: "HE NEVER BACKED DOWN, ESPECIALLY WHEN HE SAW IGNORANCE." Hahahahahahahaha! "And the Nobel Prize for Pomposity goes to . . ." How about Happ for Kwan, Morgan and Freeman, and we call it a day?
NEWSLETTER? SURE, SIGN ME UP!
Ridiculous is a little strong, isn't it? It's barely an overpay, and not really at all for a deadline deal. Obviously, if you're happy with Straw and Hedges, or if you value these prospects more than their market values, you don't make this deal. That's fine, too.
Cleveland's FO has publically stated, All-stars with control or they play the young guys. That kind of puts Cleveland out of the running for Happ and Contreras. Also Cleveland fans don't like how Hedges and Straw are hitting but Francona and the FO has committed to Hedges being the normal catcher and Straw being the normal CF. Trust me not all the fans are happy about it. Next Happ would have to play RF, since Kwan is a stronger LF than Happ and is likely the long term LF as well. I don't really like Happ as a RF.