Guardians & Athletics
Submitted by: megamlbfanyas
Guardians
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Sean Murphy | 27 | Majors | C | Low | 3.4 | 92.3 | 34.5 | 57.8 | 46.2 | 57.8 | 69.3 |
Total Value:
57.8
Athletics
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Tanner Bibee | Minors | RHP | 6.2 | 5 | 6.2 | 7.4 | ||||||
| Will Brennan | Minors | OF | 1.3 | 1 | 1.3 | 1.6 | ||||||
| Daniel Espino | Minors | RHP | 52.5 | 42 | 52.5 | 63 |
Total Value:
60
Comments
18
Cleveland already said no in real life to a deal with Espino in it lol
Zack Meisel of the Athletic wrote that Cleveland made several offers for Murphy, but Oakland wanted one of Espino, Williams, or Valera which the Guardians would not and should not do as several Guardian fans have posted here many times.
Yea honsetly if anyone i think valera will be gone
Both teams did right by their valuation.
I disagree. This is 2022. Cleveland should have traded Espino for Murphy. That remains my opinion. Obviously my opinion, in today's economy, is not even worth the proverbial two-cents. Murphy checks all the boxes at position of need for Tribe... finances, defense, offense, future control, perfect platoon partner for LH Naylor when he is ready. Espino potential undeniable but , but, but, potential not much good until it becomes production. A bird in the hand.... Cleveland has other future options on mound. Catching...not so much.
Are you sure Naylor and Lavastida have no potential or future? Espino is supposed to be a Cy Young potential arm. No one is going to trade that for a catcher...
I do know Murphy is 27, costs less than Maille, hits better than either Hedges or Maille, has won Gold Glove in 2021, currently rates #2 in framing (Hedges is #14) and is under team control for 2023, 2024, 2025. Using that information, it seems logical that Murphy would be solid Catcher to pair with Naylor (LH) or Lavastida (RH) if either ever make MLB. I know Cleveland grabbed Leon instead of either when needed in 2022. That tells me neither are ready to come up and stay. Neither is currently advanced enough to replace Maille. Maybe they were both hurt. or they were blocked by Oscar Mercado on 40 man... Cleveland could have solidified part of a position, previously referred to as important , with a player who has the defense, the offense, the affordability and control they talk about. So, guess what? Cleveland has to pay for him. That's how it goes. They have the "prospect capital" which is not Dolans locked wallet. They have plenty to get it done. A catcher with Murphy's credentials is impressive. not Contreras, but Murphy was the target. He is not rental but present and future both. Espino is good prospect , no doubt. Maybe he is Cy Young type. Maybe his knee injury becomes chronic. Maybe his knee causes a slight alteration in his mechanics and he hurts his arm. Maybe he is starter in 2023. Maybe....what?.... I don't know the future. But I know Murphy is MLB first rate catcher right now. Cleveland catching pipeline is not ready to help 2022. Cleveland pipeline pitching seems more ready though not quite (obviously). That would have been target #1 for me and shapes my opinion. Seems they decided they weren't going to be in the hunt in 2022 and are just following that plan. I wanted to build on 2022 success.
Cleveland did try to get him but Oakland wanted too much for him. It takes two to tango and Cleveland wasn't paying the same price to get Murphy as it would have for an Ace starting pitcher... That's way to much for a guy that has had below league average hitting for most of his career... Oakland wanted Cleveland and everyone else to pay for the 130 OPS+ Version of Murphy with the gold glove. Murphy wasn't traded to anyone because no one wanted to pay for him at that cost. Oakland wanted to much and Cleveland wasn't willing to spend that. Cleveland started their offers with Allen and Oakland said no. Oakland said Rocchio, Espino, Valera or Williams as the main piece. Cleveland just isn't trading those guys to anyone for anything. Hence why the trade didn't happen.
I'll be honest, Cleveland wasn't being cheap, Oakland just wanted to much. Oakland didn't get a deal done with anyone, which says Oakland wanted to much for him. That being stated, it could mean everyone was being too cheap as well lol It can be taken either way honestly. If Oakland got a deal done and it was like 30 value, yeah, it was Cleveland being cheap. No one wanted to pay the 60 and that's just the truth in the matter. From what I can tell Oakland wouldn't take an offer without one of those 4, and Cleveland wasnt going to offer one of those four, which by logic represents, Cleveland was willing to offer Allen. Now I don't know how Oakland has everyone ranked prospect wise internally, so its hard to say, but if Oakland wanted a package without those 4 around Allen, I think a deal could have been done. That's more hypothetical since I feel like Oakland wants a high end lefty starter. Ps. One thing about Cleveland's FO, they don't compromise well. They have a max they are willing to give up and won't even think about going over it. Like you wanted Martinez and they offered Tena.. They arent going to change the offer, unless they get higher elsewhere. There is a reason why on majority of the trades this FO has done, that the won them in the end. Why I act with a little black and white in deals, since that's how the Cleveland FO does it in a sense. I am the type, when running teams in like OOTP, I constantly shuffle my roster, to keep improving.
Oakland didn't want too much for for Murphy. Asking for Valera or Williams or even Espino was not an exorbitant ask (asking for all would be, I acknowledge). Cleveland chose not to part with the pieces necessary to acquire Murphy. And Murphy had a 109 wRC+ for his career prior to 2022.
They wanted one of those as the starter of the deal, it wasn't a swap, it was one of them plus some. That's too much for a small market who places all of those guys with an All-Star upside and an everyday player type of floor. I said, that Cleveland was willing to give up 40ish Max for Murphy and Oakland wanted 60, hence why Murphy didn't get traded, no one was willing to pay that much for him. They wanted too much for him hence why he didn't get traded. Cleveland wasn't moving Espino, Valera, Williams or Rocchio for anyone period and Oakland started with one with more prospects. They asked for too much lol Also Murphy in 19 and 20 had a 130ish OPS+ and 21 and majority of 22 he had less than 100 OPS+. Oakland wanted Murphy at the 130 OPS+ price, not the 110 in the middle...
Espino +1 would not have been an exorbitant price for Murphy, depending on the +1. You say the A's wanted 60 and Cleveland was willing to pay 40 for the upgrade. Valera is worth 30, how did the A's ask too much?
The FO pretty much said, it doesn't matter who is on the return, they will not trade Espino, Valera, Williams and Rocchio. They had all four listed as "untouchable". I don't decide things, I just say it like it is. These 4 they consider future All-Stars essentially... Aka regardless of if any of these guys feel within the 40, they weren't going anywhere. Next Cleveland offered a deal with Allen plus some to 40ish... Oakland said it had to have one of those four so the deal broke down. Oakland wanted to much since no team was willing to give up anything close to what they wanted. If someone was close, it would have been smart to take it...
That doesn’t sound like the A’s were asking too much… that sounds like the Guardians we’re being cheap. It’s one thing for Cleveland to say they were only willing to spend 40 for something that costs 60 but it’s a whole other level to say they were only willing to spend 40 AND Oakland couldn’t get any of their preferred options. You said it yourself, it takes two to tango but nowhere in your narrative does Cleveland try to find a middle ground. They were hoping Oakland would be desperate and the A’s weren’t. They’ll be able to get at least that 40 in value this off-season and if someone is willing to include a preferred prospect than a deal will get done. Anyways. Was Allen being Cleveland’s big ticket offer in a local source? I haven’t seen that nugget in CA.
Maybe Murphy's defensive rating takes a hit like so many do from season to season. Basing anything off of defensive metrics isn't worth a damn thing. Look, Murphy is obviously a nice, young, inexpensive C with some pop, but nobody is getting a SP prospect like Espino with Murphy..........nobody. You really think they'll promote a young C like Naylor and platoon him with his bat? No. What they'll do is promote him and resign one of Hedges or Maile and that is the right thing to do under this team's current circumstances. Murphy may be whatever you think he is, but what he isn't is worth the asking price the A's were demanding or what this site has assigned to him or he would not still be in Oakland. How do you know if Naylor and/or Lavastida are ready to help or not? Based on performance, Naylor is more than ready to help and appears as if he would be a significant upgrade right now. However, there are reasons teams wait to promote prospects and it doesn't always have to do with performance. Cleveland is in both the division and WC races precisely due to the young talent they've promoted. Who's to say that more help isn't on the way? It's a good time to be a Guardian fan. Lots of fruit ripening.
Contracts of Hedges, Maille expire at season's end. They need 2 catchers (minimum) for 2023. Even IF Naylor (LH) is part of tandem, another is needed. Cleveland has said catching defense is more important than offense. Maybe they meant "our catchers can't hit". Maybe they meant defense gets tiebreaker. Murphy was very good option, for 2022 and beyond-2025. Cleveland chose their limit and A's held at their ask. Other teams (who?) did not meet A's asking price OR maybe, A's decided to wait until after the season when MORE TEAMS could be in market. At any case, the deal is done, as in not done. Cleveland still has need at Catcher, IMO
Finding a defensive first, backup C isn't difficult. They could easily resign one of Hedges or Maile(I prefer Maile). Naylor is looking real good in Columbus and Lavastida is starting to pick it up after his injury(hamstring). If the sign someone it will not be a significant FA. Naylor and Lavastida are just too good to do that.
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sorry forgot