Mets & Rays
Submitted by: mp2891
Mets
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Yandy Diaz | 33 | Majors | 1B | Medium | 2 | 46.3 | 22 | 24.3 | 19.5 | 24.3 | 29.2 | |
| Yoniel Curet | 21 | Minors | SP | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5.8 | 4.7 | 5.8 | 7 |
Total Value:
30.1
Rays
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ronny Mauricio | 23 | Majors | SS | 5 | 16.4 | 6 | 10.3 | 8.3 | 10.3 | 12.4 | ||
| Jonah Tong | 21 | Minors | SP | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4.9 | 3.9 | 4.9 | 5.9 | ||
| Yovanny Rodriguez | 18 | Minors | C | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3.4 | 2.7 | 3.4 | 4.1 | ||
| Carson Benge | 21 | Minors | OF | 0 | 0 | 0 | 9.1 | 7.3 | 9.1 | 10.9 | ||
| Cash | 3 |
Total Value:
30.70
Comments
23
This is a friend’s trade proposal. I’ve given him my thoughts already. What does the BTV community think?
Honest thoughts: Curet seems like a reliever to me. Doesn't have any secondaries, max effort, a lot of variances in his motions. Even if he's not a reliever, he's still about the 7th or 8th best Rays P prospect to me. Trevor Harrison is far and away our best P prospect from everything I've watched. Extremely impressive easy velo, with good deception and good secondaries. As soon as he hits A+, he probably enters top 50 overall in baseball territory. Throws 99 as a teenager, and he literally just started pitching 2-3 years ago, so he doesn't have the miles on the arm that so many modern teenaged pitchers have, pitching twice a week near year round from the age of 12. I watched him a lot pre-draft, as he was an FSU recruit, and what he has become is fucking breathtaking. He is insanely good, and would be the #1 overall pick if he had gone to community college. Ty Johnson, Hopkins, Baumeister, Gill Hill, Lesko, Santiago Suarez, and you ready for it... Montgomery(!!!), are all better pitching prospects to me than Curet. So I couldn't care less about including Curet in this deal. With that said, I don't buy the hype of Mauricio. He seems like a carbon copy of Ronny Simon to me. Lots of HR, poor OBP because he draws so few walks, best suited for 2b, but doesn't hit enough to play there. We let Simon walk via MiLB FA this off-season, so although I'm not a massive fan of Curet, I'd much rather have him than Mauricio. Honestly, not even sure what we'd do with Mauricio. We didn't pay Walls and trade for Cabby to have them both sit in favor of someone who is probably not better than either one of them. So to me, the trade would be immediately modified to simply not include Mauricio and Curet. So now it's Diaz for Benge,Tong, a DINHO (Dude I've Never Heard Of {trademak Shaq}), and cash (which isn't allowed, as all players are pre-arb, and you can't buy prospects with cash above the Rule 5 $50K). Tong is a borderline top 100 undervalued here, Benge is probably overvalued here as so much of his 2024 success was being a D1 junior facing shitty and wild teenagers and drawing walks against them. He has no business K'ing 20% of the time against the downgrade of pitching he faced compared to at OK St. Small sample, sure, but K rate and BB rates used to be considered stabilized at around 60 PA if I remember right. I'm not even sure what Benge is good at. It's not defense, speed, power, or contact. The 17 year old catcher included, no clue. If I'm the Rays I turn the deal presented by your friend down. Swap McLean for Mauricio, it's an ista-yes. Take Mauricio and Curet out, replace "cash" with a decent low level prospect, gun to my head, I reluctantly do the deal.
Now, all this evaluation could be bullshit. I'm the guy who told you Taylor Walls could be an MVP candidate. As much as I hate him and his "Woulda tried to kill democratic congresspeople if I wasn't in Spring training on Jan 6, and most of my friends got a presidential pardon" bullshit that I hate him for, I still believe in his skill. I said it 4 years ago when he was in the minors leagues, kept saying it in the MLB: The day that he hits 90 wRC+, he's a top 10 MVP candidate. It's why the Rays just gave him a little of what he wanted in arb so that they would get a lot of what they want in a cheap team option. If he hits .240/.320/.400 and swipes 30 bases, he'll get downballot MVP votes. All that being said, I think I judged him pretty accurately. He was nowhere close to anyone's top 100 when I said he was the greatest SS I had ever seen not named Andrelton, and we should move Wander to 3b to accommodate Walls. Hell, I think he was in AA when I made enemies by saying that so much and so harshly. Now I didn't know Walls would throw up a 55 OPS+ last year, but I call him a Shaq success nonetheless. He was worth 1.4 bWAR with a 55 OPS+. The day he hits 90 wRC+....MVP votes.
Also said Brujan was atrocious while Brujan was a top 100. Same with Mead. Hell, came out of retirement last year to tell DRB Mead was not in my top 10, Simpson was, and Bob Seymour and Tanner Murray were my deep sleepers in my my top 20. Both of those guys are top 5 position player prospects per ZiPS, and Simpson is among the biggest risers in baseball. I hope you remember me taking a lot of flak by saying the least impressive acquisition I had ever seen was Luis Patino, and when DRB was writing article after article about his "stuff+", I said stuff plus was the biggest bullshit stat ever, and that Patino would never pitch in the MLB again. He threw 2more innings and we DFA'd him. Honestly I don't blow my own horn often, but the amount of tape I've watched, I could have been fucking Spielberg. I don't miss very often.
Rays don’t miss very often on pitchers they identify as legit TOR arms, so I was more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on Patino. It didn’t work out.
I agree that Walls is a very good SS. His bat makes him unplayable though.
Agree.
Great post Shaq. Do you mind if I take it (or specifically the Curet parts) over to DRB? Here are my thoughts. (1) I don’t see Curet as a reliever. For one, he has been unhittable in the minors, holding hitters to a below .200 batting average for his career (not counting his DSL season). He has potentially 2 plus-plus pitches, along with an changeup that should be a solid pitch in time. Yes, he walks too many guys, but a lot of that problem can be traced to not being able to handle bad innings, where he can walk 3-5 guys when things totally unravel. Note, he isn’t giving up a ton of hits or runs during these meltdowns. I was also pleased to see him take his 17% walk rate down to 12% last year. If he shows similar improvement this year, taking his walk rate down to 7-8%, everyone will be on the Curet train. (2) I’m not ready to board the Harrison hype train yet. He has potential but right now he is a 19 year old kid with below average control and no plus pitches. He’s also coming off a good, not great season, though for an 18/19 his results were pretty good. He’s top 15 for me, but I’m not ready to say best pitcher in the System.
Don't mind at all. Did someone there suggest the trade? I hope Curet improves the way you think he can. I don't see the good secondaries that you see, but we'll know soon enough. AA exposes weakness, and natural ability won't get you past there. It'll take skill. Whether he's the best or 7th best, it's mostly just because our system is incredibly deep right now. Montgomery was damn near hitting triple digits looking like Jake McGee with secondaries, and he might not make our top 20 prospects.
Yes. This is a Budman trade.
Is Monty still a prospect? If so, he is gonna be tough to place in the prospect rankings. He looked fantastic after they made him a 1-2 IP reliever.
Budman's response to your comment ------ The place for Mauricio would be a potential replacement at 2nd base for Lowe when he's moved (deadline or next winter) or be moved to the OF at some point. A 23 year old, potential 25 HR power hitting switch hitter is a nice problem to have. I will say that the proposal was made before Walls was resigned and still doesn't prevent him from still being moved. As far as Curet as the second piece, I see him as a potential closer based on his skills that the Mets might see the same to strengthen their still evolving bullpen. His value (along with Diaz) offsets acquiring the two prospects in Benge(OF) and Tong(SP) at positions the Rays are always on the hunt for. The DIHNO is Yovanny Rodriquez who is their highest rated catcher and only 18. In fact the package of prospects including still considered on the Mets current list at #5(Mauricio). #7 Benge, #8 Tong and the aforementioned Rodriquez at #17 may be too much for the Mets to part with. Although if they lose Alonso, Diaz would be a nice replacement at 1st/DH, whether they sign Bergmann or not. Just food for thought.
Response to Budman: I'm not familiar with Rodriguez. I'll check him out, but video from short season and DSL is usually so bad, I don't bother watching it. It's like a fan's footage through a chain link fence, and I don't offer opinions on players I'm not familiar with. So til then, DINHO. I don't think Mauricio will hit enough to warrant a spot at 2nd base or OF for the Rays, and the "big get" in a return for 2 cheap years of our best player shouldn't be a MLB ready prospect that I don't think will beat out Caballero, Walls, Mead, Mead, and Aranda, for 2B reps next year. Every swing I've ever watched him take, he swings out of his shoes, some of which end with him on his backside, and now he gets to do it with a bad knee. On the statistics side, 5 minor league seasons across 5 different levels, and his best season is a 108 wRC+ with a 6% BB rate. Yikes. MLB pitchers will feed him offspeed, and he'll look like Aroz during one of his cold spells where his helmet's flying off and he's ending every swing in the opposing batter's box. Various projection systems Mauricio as anywhere from 16% below league average with the bat, to 3% below average, which isn't that much different than what I'd expect out of a decent but kinda meh prospect like Tanner Murray. Mauricio's got the power to hit balls that he mishits out of the ballpark, but I see a 6'3" version of Ronny Simon, and would not accept him as the major return for Yandy. Lots of K's, no walks, monstrous HR, speed but bad base running, and now he has a bum knee. There's a lot of those guys we could sign as minor league free agents. And for what it's worth, I made all the previous comments about Mauricio, Nolan McLean, and Tyler Harrison before Baseball America left Mauricio off their top 100 list, and put Harrison and McLean on it, so I expect to see Mauricio's stock fall here, and Harrison's and McLean's to jump. I wouldn't hate it if this trade went through, but I would try hard to get Mauricio replaced in the deal if I was the Rays. In all my trades for MLB ready middle infielders, I ask myself "Will this guy beat out Taylor Walls and Curtis Mead?", and if the answer is anything but an unequivocal "fuck yes they will", I keep looking, because those guys suck.
My response to Budman -------- As you know, I'm a big fan of Y.Rodriguez, the DIHNO. He projects to be an above average catcher behind the plate (the first thing I always look for in Rays' catchers) and at least an average bat. As you point out, he's only 18, so lots of time for him to develop into something special. In fact, the last time I liked a catcher this much this early on BTV it was the Brewers' Jefferson Quero, who is now listed as their top overall prospect but was just a teenage nobody at the time. Rodriguez is not a teenage nobody though. He was the highest rated catcher signed from the 2024 Int'l free agent class and ranked the #6 overall free agent that year according to MLB Pipeline. The Mets gave him nearly $3MM to sign, which for those who don't know is about 50% more than the Rays gave anyone this year, signifying a big commitment to him. He's likely not available, but if he is, I want him! The problem I have with Mauricio is the hit tool. Aside from 2023, his bat has just been on the poor side of OK, with him struggling to get to .300 OBP most years. Of course, he also missed all of 2024, and I generally assume players come back a little worse when they miss an entire year until they are able to prove otherwise. So yeah, the power and switch-hitting is nice, but he's no B.Lowe (who generally combined good power with a nearly mid-300s OBP). I like Tong a lot, but I don't know that I like him more than Curet. If we're trading Diaz to the Mets though, I'd like to get a good pitcher as part of the trade (e.g., Tong, McLean, Santucci). My dream trade for Diaz had been Benge, Acuna, Tong and Rodriguez. That's no longer a possibility with the new prospect grades coming out bumping up the trade values of guys like Tong (who was a relative nobody until he started getting near top 100 love). My current trade is Diaz for Acuna, Baty, Rodgriguez and Santucci (who I figure is more available than Tong). The Mets should have no issue parting with Acuna and Baty considering the rest of their System, so the question is whether they will part with Rodriguez (top Int'l signee last year) and Santucci (their 2024 2nd round pick).
I'll reply to your reply tonight. Haven't had time today
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I'd be over the moon for that return, what would your friend's thought be on how to use Mauricio?
I’m not a huge fan of Mauricio to the Rays personally but he likes Mauricio for the following reason.- “In Mauricio they get an intriguing player who could be a force coming off an injury and reaching more potential.” I’m sure there’s more to it than that, but that was what he told me initially.
Responded below
See I'm a big fan of trading for Mauricio but moving him permanently to RF where he has a 60 grade arm and power, I see him a lot like O'Neil Cruz as in getting the big man off the dirt so that he can focus on hitting. I was really intrigued by his 2023 season where he cut down on the strikeouts and boosted his OBP a good amount, plus then J Lowe could move to LF and the Wish App version of Alfonso Siriano can split time between 2B/1B/DH before his eventual DFA.
I don’t think he has the hit tool to be all that good in the Show and moving him to COF requires his bat to be better than it is.
I would be happy with this return as I really want YR and CB and I think the potential LH power bat of RM is worth the try even though I'm not sure what his position would be. The Mets have Lindor, so they started moving RM around, so he could be super utility (with more LH power potential than the many super utility players that the Rays seems to have in their system). Personally I would prefer to drop the 2 pitchers and the $$ and do YD for YR, CB, RM
Hey bud, Rays fan also. Are you also a fan of the Red Sox? Odd combination if so. I look forward to having conversations in the future. Do me a favor though...YR, CB, RM? No Idea who those are without having to scroll up to remind myself who we are discussing. How bout "Rodriguez, Benge, and Mauricio" instead. Makes it far easier on the reader, without too much extra effort on your part. Thanks, Shaq
No problem about names instead of initials and YES, a rare fan of both. I was born in Boston and when I moved to Tampa Bay area, there was not a team here yet. I spent a lot of time during Spring Training in Winter Haven (Red Sox old home) and due to family connections, I was lucky enough to spend time in their locker room and hanging out on the field.... still have pictures with Jim Rice.