Guardians & Dodgers & Brewers
Submitted by: JoshL10
Guardians
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Gavin Stone | Minors | RHP | 22.2 | 17.8 | 22.2 | 26.6 |
Total Value:
22.2
Dodgers
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Willy Adames | 26 | Majors | SS | Low | 2 | 64.3 | 23 | 41.3 | 33.1 | 41.3 | 49.6 | |
| Enyel De Los Santos | 24 | Majors | RHRP | High | 4 | 11 | 5.4 | 5.7 | 4.5 | 5.7 | 6.8 |
Total Value:
47
Brewers
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Amed Rosario | 26 | Majors | SS | OF | Medium | 1 | 18.6 | 9 | 9.6 | 7.7 | 9.6 | 11.5 |
| Jose Tena | Minors | SS | 5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | ||||||
| Miguel Vargas | 22 | Majors | 1B | 3B | Low | 6 | 26.2 | 0.7 | 25.5 | 20.4 | 25.5 | 30.6 |
Total Value:
40.1
Comments
19IMO the Brewers would take this deal. Vargas would go to 3B with Tellez at 1B. Turang is MLB ready now and would go to the super utility role with Rosario at SS for a year. Tena would probably play 3B at AAA.
I'd say no if I'm the Brewers doesn't feel like a wise return. I just don't think Vargas is such a sure thing to play 3B long term and he becomes a lot less interesting if he is stuck in a corner outfield spot or 1B defensively. Id prefer Urias to play 3B over Vargas right now and if we aren't targeting Varges for a need at 3B then why not go after Busch. Rosario would more interesting if the Brewers had a SS waiting in the wings but they don't and Tena is looking more like a future util guy. Really don't think Adames is going to be traded this year and of the Adames Burnes Woodruff trio Id say he is the most likely to sign an extension. Id guess the Brewers extend Adames and one of the pitchers then flip whoever isn't extended next offseason. It would be more interesting if Rocchio/Rosario was the return other wise the Brewers are just creating a hole at SS long term.
The Brewers do have a SS. Brice Turang. They seem to be pretty high on him as well, which could mean that Adames is gone once he is a free agent. The Brewers don't give out huge extensions to just anybody. It had to be someone like Christian Yelich, a former MVP still at the top of his game when he signed. And look how that turned out for them... Dodgers would likely give up Busch just as easily as Vargas. In fact, the Dodgers seem to be higher on Vargas than Busch, so switching those two would be just fine with LAD and LAD fans.
Turang isn't a realistic option for the Brewers at SS. His defense might be plus at SS but he has been just an average bat in AAA while his ability to play up the middle with good defense makes him a great super sub a contending can't carry give him a starting role. There are already rumors they have engaged in extension talks with Adames and I would be very surprised if one of the big 3 isn't signed to an extension. I would rather Busch then Vargas he seems to have a much better bat and I don't think Vargas can cut it as a 3B
Warmbath: the Brewers DO have a SS waiting in the wings, his name is Turang. Very good glove and hit 286/.360/.772 in AAA. Also drove in 78 runs at AAA. After looking at all the huge contracts going out to SPs and SS, I don't think the Brewers will be in the running to extend Adames or Burnes. Woodruff is a very slight possibility. One of the many drawbacks to be a limited budget, small market team in MLB. I believe Milwaukee would much rather have Vargas than Busch. They would look at Vargas at 3B with Urias at 2B and Tellez at 1B. Vargas goes to 1B and Urias 3B against lefties. Busch is a LH hitting version of Hiura. Lots of strikeouts, 1B/DH type because of his weak fielding at 2B/LF.
Turang is not a future starter. He has been just a league average bat at AAA which translates to a much worse at the majors. He will get his taste at 2B but he will need to show serious power gains at the MLB level to avoid becoming a zero with his bat. There is zero shot the Brewers extend all 3 and probably a small shot they extend 2 but Adames in my eyes is the one the FO will most want to lock up. IDK why everyone thinks Vargas is going to be a 3B he is a bad defender and Busch is a better hitter in my eyes and more importantly scouts eyes then Vargas. That said if they the deal Adames next offseason Id want a much different return.
This deal helps all three teams improve in 2023 and beyond. Dodgers add Willy Adames to play SS, which moves Lux back to 2B where he is much better. They also get a proven bullpen arm who can help replace the losses of Treinen, Kimbrel, Kahnle, etc. They also get this deal done without giving up either of their top prospects, Cartaya and Miller. Brewers replace Adames with Amed Rosario, who is more than capable of holding down the position until Brice Turang. They also receive MLB ready Miguel Vargas. He would likely slot in at 1B (his best defensive spot), and would provide a big bat for the Brewers lineup to replace Adames. Finally they receive another SS prospect in Tena. Guardians deal from a position of depth (SS) and acquire a top 100 MLB prospect. After trading Rosario, Andres Gimenez could slide over to SS, (his natural position), or they could opt to bring up one of their top SS prospects (Rocchio or Arias). The Guardians also have plenty of pitching, so they could afford to lose an arm like DLS. Any thoughts?
Hey Josh... a well put together deal that helps all three teams.. The question about when it helps isn't quite as clear, but, the quality of the prospects and players is there.. A few notes: - Brew Crew gets two bats including an impact bat with Vargas from the Dodgers.. Tena is a versatile near ML Ready infielder with some significant pop with the lumber.. -Guardians get a high floor middle of the rotation to top of the rotation starting pitcher. It's been bandied about that there is a desire to move Zach Plesac out of the rotation and into the bullpen as a tweener/opener/multi-inning reliever. His performance in the wild-card and LDS supports that.. -Dodgers are going to HATE losing Vargas.. but love keeping Gavin Lux at SS & it is a long term fix. The addition of De los Santos (DLS) from the Guardians is mitigated by the move of Plesac to the pen.. DLS has the kind of arm and demeanor the Dodgers need for their middle and back of the pen.. Good deal..
I'm not really as high on Vargas as most Dodgers fans are. That said, I still think he's a good player, but nowhere near as good as adames. Stone is a good pitcher as well, but no Miller imo. Interesting you say that about Plesac to the pen. I had assumed the Guardians were fed up with him and were going to trade him. And would this deal help with the Guardians 40 man problem. Or it that not a thing for them anymore?
Both Vargas (UT risk) and Busch (defense) have flaws but will become everyday MLBers. I'd trade Busch and keep Vargas if I had to choose. Personally, I'd try to trade for Amed Rosario + cash FOR Knack + or Pepiot. 3m for return upgrade would help with keeping under $233m. But a fair proposal that meets needs.
Okay, I'm sure Vargas is the guy Cleveland really wants, Stone though I like as well. This doesn't help Cleveland in 23, so it's a move on the fence, but if Cleveland needed to create 40 man roster space, this is a good deal for them. Cleveland does want help now, so this hurts them on paper in 23, but should help them in the long run... Brewers want to compete in 23 as well... I'm not sure if Rosario is a target they would like since his production won't equal his monetary value, plus you can never count on a rookie. On paper this helps Brewers long term not in 23... Dodgers on paper get a player they really need and likely could keep long term since they have the means to. I think the Dodgers, take this deal even though they give up a bit much for Adames. We may see a PTBNL to the Dodgers from someone...
On paper, I agree, it doesn't look good for the Guardians for 2023. But the biggest gain for them in this trade would be addition by subtraction. Trading Rosario gives them a chance to play Gimenez at SS and the ability to bring up top prospect Rocchio (or Arias). I wouldn't be surprised if whoever they replace Rosario with outperforms him this next season. That's just how stacked they are at SS. Stone has moved through the minors extremely fast, with great results, and his eta is for sometime during the 2023 season. Also, what do you mean by saying Rosario is a rookie. I'm pretty sure his rookie year was 2020... Dodgers could certainly use some more relief pitcher help so maybe that could be the extra piece you mentioned.
I was 100% clear there, Rosario isn't the rookie, Vargas is, sorry. Rosario will cost the same money wise as Adames in 23 btw, and Vargas is a rookie, so you cannot count on a rookie to produce (though i believe he will produce)... Also Rosario has only play SS, 3B, LF and CF... I actually firmly believe he will be a plus at 3B and a negative at 2B on defense. Trust me I know the SS talent, but no one with really any MLB bats, so I'd hope they find a way to add a veteran utility guy who can play SS if they move Rosario.
As a Cleveland fan I give this deal an upvote because I like Stone and he fits the timeline with many of the other Cleveland SP prospects. Oddly enough, the player I hate to trade right now in this deal is De Los Santos. They picked him up off the waiver wire last year and he was a rock in our BP. The Dodgers are the winners in this deal for sure so I'm having second thoughts.
Sounds like an Evan Phillips! Losing him would hurt, especially since we basically turned his whole career around (DLS and phillips). Could putting stone in the rotation and moving Plesac to the pen help with losing him? Seems like a lot of the time when starters move to the pen it ends up making them even more dominant than they were before (ie josh hader).
Regardless, I would give up Rosario, DLS and Tena to get Stone. Losing DLS would sting a bit though.
NEWSLETTER? SURE, SIGN ME UP!
I guess it would depend on the Guardians accepting then. No way the Dodgers turn this down. Adames is young cheap and really good and fills the biggest hole on the team. Brewers could also have Rosario be that super utility guy. In his career he has played CF, SS, 2B, and 3B. I guess it just depends on who they see as the long term SS.
Rosario isn't a good utility guy at all... His best position on paper should be CF, though he didnt look good there, but I actually think fielding wise would be 3B, but he has barely played there. He has never played 2B and isn't likely to ever really play there, since his INF range actually isn't all that great, he just cut down his errors and mistakes...
Either way, one of them has to be the SS and one the UT guy. But didn't rosario play some 2B with the Mets?