Angels & White Sox
Submitted by: redstorm133
Angels
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Lucas Giolito | 28 | Majors | SP | Medium | 0.4 | 10.5 | 4 | 6.6 | 5.3 | 6.6 | 7.9 | |
| Reynaldo Lopez | 29 | Majors | RP | Medium | 0.4 | 2.6 | 1.4 | 1.3 | 1 | 1.3 | 1.5 | |
| Cash | 23 |
Total Value:
30.9
White Sox
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ky Bush | Minors | SP | 9.8 | 7.9 | 9.8 | 11.8 | ||||||
| Edgar Quero | Minors | C | 20.3 | 16.2 | 20.3 | 24.3 |
Total Value:
30.1
Comments
31Dont think Halos got the cash. Not happy we traded Quero
Massive overpay; cash is there for the simulator to accept it. My take: Once the Angels decided to keep Ohtani and go for the playoffs, they went all-in.
You would think an all-in approach would include getting the best players they could though. At this price, I'd at least want Snell and Hader, or a pitcher with control beyond 2023, not pure rentals Giolito and Lopez. Angels paid for a Tesla and are getting back a Toyoto Corolla.
When you have a Toyota Corolla, you don't have to support a fascist though.
What kind of idiot would call Musk a fascist? Can you define a fascist without the internet? Maybe you need to do a little research about Giovanni Gentile, fascism, free speech and current censor movements and get back to us before name calling. Back to baseball...
Thats a bad analogy. Toyota Carolla will run forever with minor maintenance. tesla's break down often and cost a fortune to fix and when they ignite it takes a tsunami to put them out.
Know what else breaks down all the time? Lucas Giolito
I'll take something that can get me from A-B over some electronic piece of crap that's constantly b*tching and may or may not be creating an AI clone of myself, thank you very much!
Also a move to prove to Ohtani they will spend to win so he re-signs.
agreed, after they said they were comitted to keeping shohei, they absolutly had pressure on them to show the league that they are serious
Their commitment to keeping Ohtani looks like it's just for this year, though, because it sure looks like they are selling the future to pay for today.
If this is the high cost buyers will pay, I’d put Cease on the block if I’m Chicago. Especially with Ohtani off the market.
Has the market been set? Will Montgomery at 8.1 also bring back 31?
If that's the market, the Rays are open for business and looking to sell. They'll just roll out a 13 man Pen to get through the season and try again next year.
I don't think so. Probably a slight overpay but the Angels FO/owner (Moreno) are so unreasonable. This trade reminds me of the Rockies giving away Nolan Arenado along with $51M. Everyone can agree it's a horrible trade that makes no sense. I do get them moving Quero because they have O'hoppe, but a competent FO would get better value in return.
How is it an overpay? Because your ever changing value system says so? If the prospects struggle the second half then their value will go way down anyways on your arbitrary value system. I’ve seen Dylan Carlson go from a 50 surplus value to 15 in a matter of two months. It’s basic supply and demand. Not a lot of pitchers with Giolito’s’ talent are available, and there are many buyers. Thus the price gets driven up
The system is not arbitrary. It's based on the market value of expected future production, minus the projected future salary. The fact that Carlson's value has fallen is not because of the model. His preseason value reflected a bit of his earlier high prospect value, supported by back-to-back 2+ WAR seasons. This season his production has dropped dramatically, along with his playing time. His own team now views him as a 4th outfielder (and no one is going to pay $50M in asset value for a 4th outfielder). Those factors, combined with the passage of time (he's now under control for 3+years, instead of 4 years), and the fact that he's exiting his pre-arb cheap years and will start to get more expensive in arbitration, all combine to lower his value. And while supply and demand is a factor in trades like the one above, that's far too simple an explanation. Many front offices now refuse to overpay, and are very disciplined with their models. This trade was driven by the Angels' owner pushing his foot on the gas and going for it. Good luck to them for trying, and if they win the World Series it would have been worth it, but the odds are against them.
"expected market value", that's impossible to accurately project. These valuations have wildly fluctuated on everyone, i was just using carlson as an example as that is one that I've seen shift dramatically in short period of time. The point is you have no clue if its an overpay because no one has any idea if those prospects will carry any future value for the white sox. There have been many trades that might have been deemed acceptable at the time of the trade and then a year later looks to be a horribly one sided trade. As a cardinals fan I can attest to this with the Ozuna trade. No one had Alcantara or Gallen being that valuable at the time and now both are aces and Ozuna was barely mediocre for us. I find it refreshing to see a team owner buck the trend of the new conventional wisdom in pursuing a win now approach while he has the best baseball player we have ever seen.
Is it a good trade, simple answer is a resounding NO. But I respect it at the same
This trade symbolizes exactly why the Angels are such a poorly run franchise. They are trading 1 really really good prospect and a relatively good prospect for a couple of "just a guy" pitchers in Giolito and Lopez. Giolito is sporting a 4.43 xERA, a 4.46 FIP, and a 4.33 xFIP for crying out loud. Lopez's overall numbers aren't much better, but at least he's shown improvement of late. You can't say that with Giolitto. I know Chicago's defense isn't good, but Giolito's results are pretty average. On a good rotation, they are 4/5 starter good. And the Angels only get these guys for the 2023 season. This time next year they won't have Ohtani, Giolito or Lopez and they'll be 10 games below .500 watching Ohtani play for the Dodgers because the Angels Farm system is left in tatters from their All-In approach to the 2023 season and because their payroll cannot afford Ohtani plus all the other players it would take to win a championship. So sad....
This is why I am a rays fan.
Yeah, but being a Rays fan carries its own form of torture. Watching the Rays assemble 100 top middle infielders and never trade any of them at peak value while other positions cry out for attention is a particular issue (Brujan and Aranda say hi).
you'd think Moreno would watch lad's FO professional skill and put together a competitive front office. The real genius front office is in TB -- at least LAD recognized this post-Frank and bought FO talent, too.
None of this makes sense. If the Angels traded Ohtani, they could have shown him all the talent they can surround him with and sign him in the offseason. Now they kept him for 3 more months, but when he's gone, he's gone. And he has no reason to want to return to a .500 team with no prospects.
Moreno is an a hole for thinking that they will make the postseason this year. They are going to lose Ohtani for nothing. Huge mistake by not waving the white flag.
I don’t really question the value of the return for Giolitto considering demand and how far it was from the deadline. However, I question why the Angels were willing to blow the white sox away with this offer. They are a bubble team that didn’t look to be going anywhere with many injuries to their positional group. This seems like an impulsive move from the FO considering that they only deemed themselves buyers a few hours earlier.
I agree with this. If the Padres put Snell and Hader on the market this weekend, the Angels are going to be kicking themselves because they've shot their wad with this trade.
Quero was an expendable piece, but the Angels should have done better than a couple of rental arms
How do you know what else they could have gotten for him? You have zero clue what the asking price is for controllable starting pitching beyond one year of control.
Quero was an expendable piece, but the Angels should have done better than a couple of rental arms
NEWSLETTER? SURE, SIGN ME UP!
Yeah they didn’t, poster just needed to do that for trade to be accepted by the model